Zojirushi BBCCX20 Home Bakery Supreme Bread Machine
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Kitchen and Housewares Reviews of Zojirushi BBCCX20 Home Bakery Supreme Bread Machine
Customer Review: Pleased but only after making some adjustments
Summary: 4 Stars
This is going to be long, but I hope it will help someone else who is having trouble with their Zoji.
I have been baking bread for years, and it's been a challenge to find a new bread machine. I literally wore out a GE breadmaker after almost 10 years of use, and was disappointed to learn they no longer make them. First try, I purchased a Breadman Ultimate, and took it back after using it twice - it was *very* poorly made, the pan would not stay locked in the clips and it banged around horribly during mixing. The bread turned out ok, but even hubby said it would not last and the racket it made was unreal. You needed ear plugs just to stay in the same room with it.
I really wanted a machine that baked a more traditional size loaf, and initially balked on the price of the Zoji. However, after the disaster with the Breadman, I decided there had to be a better option.
The Zojirushi is very solidly built - the pan is probably twice as thick as the Breadman Ultimate, and even thicker than my old GE model. The unit itself is large, so be prepared to sacrifice some counter space, but it's heavy enough that I can't see it taking a dive off the edge of the counter either. Another huge plus is that it is EXTREMELY quiet! I never thought a bread machine could ever work almost silently, but this one does. I had no trouble talking on the phone while it was running (you could never do that with the Breadman Ultimate!).
However (yes, you knew that was coming), I've had to do some tweaking to get it to make decent bread. I have read almost every single review on this breadmaker, and for those who give it glowing accolades right out of the box, all I can say is that you must have had a machine that was programmed better than mine. I think it's arrogant to assume that it is always the fault of the user with this breadmaker rather than the machine itself. I have owned a bread machine for almost 10 years, and even I almost returned this one initially and called it trash.
I watched the video that came with it, and also read the instructions. I used the Zoji recipe for their basic white bread first, and it turned out "ok" - but not great. Definitely not what I was expecting.
So I decided to use my tried and true Golden Egg Bread recipe that I've made literally hundreds of times over the years. The results were appalling! The bread did not rise as it should, was almost burned on the bottom, and the top looked like it had never seen heat - it was a sickly pale color (and this was on the medium crust setting for basic white bread). I could not believe this highly rated machine turned out a loaf this bad!
I thought I'd try it one more time just to see if it was a fluke, and got the exact same results. One thing different this time though was that I paid attention to how much the machine kneaded the dough, and how long the rise cycles were. I finally decided THAT is the problem with the machine - the timing is way off as it is originally programmed.
Thankfully, I kept my old GE user manual and it had the times for each cycle listed in the book. I used the HomeMade setting and programmed my own times/cycles into it, plus turned one of the rise times OFF completely (why there are three on the Zoji, I have no clue). As the original Basic White Bread cycle is set up, it does not knead the dough long enough, does not rise as it should, and bakes WAY too long.
Yesterday I used my own program for the first time and made a wonderful loaf of bread! It even browned on top. :o)
If you are having the same trouble with your machine, get out your instructions and manually program the following into the Memory (under HomeMade):
Turn PREHEAT OFF - this is a waste of time and electricity if your ingredients are at proper temperature.
Set the KNEAD cycle to 30 minutes (my old machine had 33, but 30 minutes is the max Zoji will allow).
Set the first RISE to 25 minutes.
Set the second RISE to 64 minutes.
Leave the third rise turned OFF.
Set the BAKING time to 40 minutes for light crust, 55 minutes for medium crust, and 65 minutes for dark crust.
I left the KEEP WARM turned off, but that's just my preference.
You may have to tweak these settings just a bit for your own recipes, but this worked beautifully for me - 100% better than what the Basic program runs.
I did remove the paddles at the beginning of the 2nd rise and gently shaped the loaf back into place. It wasn't lop-sided and was very smooth. I think the lack of proper kneading is a major culprit on the cracked tops of some loaves mentioned. I also take a plastic spatula and scrape the corners as it's mixing just to be sure it all gets incorporated. Sometimes water/flour adjustments have to be made too - you normally can't just throw it all in and walk off without checking the consistency. It shouldn't be dry and crumbly, but it also shouldn't be so sticky that it sticks to your fingers when you touch it. You develop a sense over time of what good dough feels like.
For dough only recipes, I plan on programming a 30 minute knead and 60 minute rise.
Overall, I'm pleased with the machine with the above changes, so I'm giving it 4 stars. I think it's sturdy, well-built, and above par for most bread machines I've seen on the market. However, I do think it needs the ability to customize the temperature, and a pause button would be helpful. It has the potential to be a great machine with some changes. I hope it holds up for many, many years after the high price tag on it.
Customer Review: Amazon is terrific, the Zo is not!
Summary: 1 Stars
I read all the reviews and was looking forward to finally getting my new
Zojirushi BBCCX20 Home Bakery Supreme Bread Machine. I love making
bread by hand and with bread makers. It's a hobby that benefits both my
husband and family.
There were so many positive reviews and very few negative ones. This had to be
a good machine. Unfortunately, it was not. One reviewer said that if someone
did not like their Zo they must have a defective machine and should return it
for a new one. I did that, Amazon was wonderful, had UPS pick it up and
promptly sent me another. The second machine was exactly like the first.
It produced overcooked loaves, the sides and bottom were hard (not chewy, we
like chewy, but really hard) with an anemic looking white top. I was
embarrassed to serve it to my family. They actually laughed and I had to laugh
with them. What I really felt like doing was crying.
Although, I've had great success with my old bread machines, I own three older
ones, I can only make fair bread with my new Zo if I fiddle with the dough,
adding flour or water, reshaping the dough before it bakes (so it's not lopsided)
and taking my bread out before the cycle is finished. I've never seen such a
finicky appliance.
I'm used to throwing everything in the pan and getting glorious bread, baked
well, with nice crust and texture. I might get a slightly different texture if the
dough was a bit dry or wet but it was still very nice bread.
I wanted the Zo because I thought it made nice horizontal loaves, had two
paddles and 3 programmable cycles. I'm not thrilled with the shape of the
loaves from the Zo, they are misshapen and just too large for a toaster and
make oversize sandwiches. My old vertical pan machines make odd shaped
loaves but the individual slices fit toasters beautifully. This is important to me.
I used Zojirushi recipes, measured correctly, checked the dough and made 4
loaves of hard rock bread using the light crust setting. I tried the banana,
raisin, white and used the Zo manual settings for French bread. It does not
have a French bread cycle, you have to use one of the 3 programmable cycles. I
used the settings in the manual and again got overcooked sides. I tried again
and the only way I could get a decent loaf was to take it out 12 minutes early. I
had to watch the machine, thermometer in hand, trying to guess when to open
the top to check the bread. Not acceptable.
Since the Zo overcooks, it would be impossible to set the timer to make bread
in the morning unless I set an alarm clock to alert me to take the bread out
early.
I called the Zojirushi 800 number and a very polite lady asked me questions
about my recipes, my method of measuring, etc. She tried to make me think
that I was doing something wrong. I'm knowledgeable about making bread.
When I answered all her questions to her
satisfaction she told me that I should be weighing my flour. I told her that
would be impossible since the Zo recipes use cups, and do not give weight
measurements.
She emailed photos of what my bread should look like. Guess what? The first
photo looked exactly like my bread with very dark sides and white non-
browned top. I guess Zojirushi thinks this is OK and we should overpay for a
machine that overcooks the sides while leaving the top uncooked.
I learned through a Yahoo group that most Zo users use their machines just for
mixing dough and bake in the oven. I live in a very warm climate and need to
bake in my machine at least 4 months of the year. And honestly, I don't even
think it mixes that well, when I added raisins at the beep, most of them did not
mix inside the bread. Most coated the outside of the bread and, of course,
burned with the sides and bottom.
Zojirushi needs to make major improvements in this model. I was surprised to
see that it did not have separate cycles for different size loaves. That's 20 year
old technology. If you make a 1 lb, 1 and 1/2 lb or 2 pound loaf, the Zo bakes
them on the same cycle with the same cooking time. Since the 2 lb loaves were
overcooked I can only imagine what the smaller loaves would be like.
I'm very disappointed because I've looked forward to owning a Zojirushi and
feel very let down. I was willing to pay more for a quality, long lasting machine
but it has to bake well.
I wonder if a percentage of the Zojirushi BBCCX20 Home Bakery Supreme
Bread Machines are defective and I was unlucky enough to get two of them. If
so, Zojirushi needs to work on their quality control.
Sorry for the long review. This is the first time I've ever felt the need to review
anything but this has been such a disappointing experience that I had to share.
Customer Review: Great start, defective pan, questionable support/lifespan
Summary: 3 Stars
I am unsure of why my original review of this product is not here. I will try again...
We purchased this after our trusty Panasonic SD-YD205 bread machine finally gave up the ghost after almost 12 years of making a loaf or two per week.
When we purchased the Panasonic, it was one of the most expensive bread machines available; I decided that we had a better chance for longevity if we purchased a quality machine. This faith was borne out because the machine did indeed last almost 12 years. I can conservatively estimate we made approximately 1,000 loaves before the machine finally died. 12 years and 1,000 loaves of higher quality bread (than store bought) for a lower cost, without too much extra trouble, was a great deal.
So, when the time came to buy a replacement, I figured it was best to follow the same purchasing philosophy: buy one of the best machines and it would have quality parts, and therefore longevity.
The Zoji's ability to make things other than bread was a major consideration for purchasing this machine. Although our main use is for bread, I thought it would be useful to be able to make other things as well.
We also wanted a machine that made a more conventionally sized/shaped loaf - the Panasonic's loaf was very over-sized and oddly shaped. Also, the Panasonic's loaf, because of the large single blade, left a large "cutout" in approximately four of the slices.
When the Zoji first arrived, we made a few loaves of bread: they came out wonderfully - with a "fluffier" texture than the Panasonic. We also made a banana bread and some jam. Both came out well.
However, after making about four loaves, we noticed, on both sides of the inside of the bread basket, that the non-stick coating was coming off. How this happened, I have no clue: we made only white bread, banana bread (with no nuts - it was from the recipe included in the manual), and strawberry jam. None of these recipes included any ingredients which could have caused the coating to detach. And, even if they did, the machine should be able to handle making foods which contain such ingredients (walnuts, etc.) and for which the manual contains recipes.
When I contacted Zojirushi about the problem, they weren't immediately helpful. Their first suggestion was to take the machine to one of their authorized service centers. However, this entailed lugging the machine on a two-hour round-trip, not to mention the time spent at the service station. When I complained that they weren't being very helpful, their next suggestion was that I e-mail them pictures of the damage, and, if their assessment agreed with mine, they would send me a new basket.
A reasonable compromise I thought, so I took a series of eight pictures, four of each damaged side, at varying zoom levels (to be sure they could properly see the damage). I attached these JPGs to an e-mail and sent it off.
A week goes by and...nothing. No response. I e-mailed them, asking for a status update. They told me that they did indeed receive my e-mail in which I informed them of the attached JPGs. However, they said no JPGs were attached to my message! So, instead of replying to my e-mail and informing me of the fact that, apparently, something had gone wrong, they simply ignored my message.
So, I re-sent them; however, this time I sent eight different e-mails, each with a single JPG attached (my reasoning being that their mail server couldn't handle such a large e-mail as I had originally sent).
After a few days, they sent an e-mail informing me of their agreement with my assessment, and of their intention to send a replacement. About a week later the replacement arrived. It didn't seem to be new - there were fine scratches, in a circular pattern, where the two blades come into contact with the surface of the basket.
At this point it may be useful to point out that the Panasonic's bread basket is made from some sort of textured metal which, by its nature, has non-stick properties (meaning it has no coating to scratch), and after 12 years of use it looked almost pristine; the Zoji seems to be made of aluminum with a non-stick coating applied. It is this exterior non-stick coating which peeled off. This bothers me. The Panasonic, purchased for $139 twelve years ago included a much higher quality basket than the Zojirushi, purchased for $190 currently.
So, we've now had the machine for approximately eight months, and it has been about four months using the replacement basket. So far, so good. However, everything considered -- premium price paid, hassles with getting a replacement, inferior construction of the bread pan, and the apparently used basket they sent as a replacement; balanced against these are the wonderful bread the machine makes, and it's ability to make other useful/tasty items -- I have to give this product only 3 stars. Yes, they did, after some hassle, replace the original defective bread basket, but because of it's inferior construction, I'm not too confident it will last anything near the 12 years the Panasonic's basket lasted. And, I've since discovered that replacement baskets run for about $50-$60. So, not only did I pay a premium for a machine which I expect to last for a long time, it looks very possible I will have to pay some more to get a good lifespan out of it.
Customer Review: Teflon Bonding Failure
Summary: 2 Stars
Within a few weeks of purchase the teflon in the Zojirushi pan started to blister and flake off. This is NOT the result of customer abuse but a manufacturing defect.
This is my third (and final) bread machine. The first two were Breadman Ultimates. I should note that I make bread in the machine about 6 times a week on average, pretty much every morning.
The first Breadman worked for over a year until the teflon in the pan started to fail. This was probably my fault for allowing the pan to soak for extended periods of time (water can get behind the teflon and ruin the bond).
I bought an new Breadman Ultimate because the entire machine was only slightly more than the pan alone and the old machine was starting to have mechanical problems. This time I took extremely good care of the pan (letting it cool down, no soaking) because it's clearly the weak link in the system. Within 8 months the stirring shaft that drives the paddle in the pan simply fell out. Whatever the detente mechanism was that holds the shaft to the pan failed, making the machine useless. Currently it doesn't seem very easy (or even possible) to buy a replacement pan for the Breadman.
At this point I was done with the Breadman. Much as I didn't want to spring for the extra money for the Zojirushi, and realizing that my default augmented sourdough recipe probably wouldn't work the same in the new machine, I didn't see an alternative and got one.
Within 3 weeks the teflon in the Zoji pan formed two blisters. One is bit smaller than a dime and all the teflon at this spot has flaked off; the other spot is blistering but the teflon is still intact. I have been extremely careful with the pan: I wait for it to cool and then remove the baked-on bread under the paddles with warm water using mostly my fingers. I don't let it soak at all. This is clearly a manufacturing defect.
I have further complaints with respect to this machine as compared to the Breadman Ultimate:
1) The top of the bread rarely gets brown. I've added more sugar to the recipe which helps slightly but not much.
2) I don't understand what the crust control option does. It doesn't seem to increase baking time which it does on the Breadman so it doesn't make much sense.
3) The programmability is very weak. On the Breadman you can take any of the existing standard options and modify them as well as make up entirely new programs.
4) The programmability options are very limited:
- You can't control the knockdown time between risings.
- You can't add risings to the default three. They do give you a lot of time control on the risings.
- You can't separate the mixing cycle from the kneading cycle: it's all one cycle.
- When you turn off the preheat cycle, this only affects the built-in programs and not the custom ones.
- And worst of all: you can't bake for more than 70 minutes. This is utterly ridiculous. I'm sure this is a "safety feature" but it means you can't correct for the pathetic lack of crust formation or have larger recipes and so forth. This is almost a killer limitation in my opinion.
For those other reviewers that are having issues with rising, I've determined that the machine is very sensitive to the amount, type, and quality of yeast. If you *exactly* follow the manufacturers instuctions with respect to yeast and use fresh yeast, it should work okay. This means you must use rapid rise yeast with the Quick programs and active dry yeast with the longer standard programs. Even using Fleischmann's instead of Red Star made a difference. The Breadman was pretty much indifferent to yeast variations.
At this point I'm done with bread machines. They are a failed technology. In fact, teflon is a dangerous and substandard technology.
All you have to do is search for teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene) and toxic to come up with some pretty alarming data on this noxious substance. The manufacturing process results in significant environmental contamination.
A direct consumer health risk due to toxic outgassing occurs when teflon is exposed to temperatures above 500 degrees (eg: frying pans). Perhaps bread machines are not that risky given the lower temps involved in baking and the fact that wet dough will keep the average pan temperature pretty low, but if you know anything about toxicity you will realize that it is always a sliding scale: there will be some outgassing at lower temperatures. Imagine low levels of toxic gas released into your homemade bread. I've thought about this, but there's no way to make a bread machine without teflon -- going from mixing dough to baking requires teflon, there is just no other viable solution.
I love making bread every day and I'm going to miss this activity but at this point the manufacturing defects and use of teflon mean I have to give up on this technology. It's back to the occasional hand-made loaf -- it's the only rational and healthy solution.
Customer Review: Good But Some Issues
Summary: 3 Stars
I bought this machine in Feb 2010 and have been using now for about six months. Did not have success making bread with store bought flour. However, I did buy a flour mill and wheat berries, hard red winter wheat. Important to put the liquid ingredients on the bottom, then the flour and other dry ingredients and the yeast last, making sure that it will not come in contact with any of the liquid. Why? I dont know, all I know is that if this is not followed your bread will be a disaster.
Once we started using freshly milled/ground flour the bread came out great. It was clearly superior to any bread one can buy. It is heavier and denser than store bought bread. Wondering if commercial bread, whole wheat or not, is not 5 cups of flour. Thinking that they might skimp on the flour and use pump up the bread with more air/yeast/sugar. Everyone really loves the taste and texture of the bread. We also notice a real difference in how we feel when eating the homemade bread versus the store bought bread.
Our recipe, is basically, 5c flour, 4tbl non fat dry milk, 4tbl gluten, 1/3c sucanat, 2 tsp salt, 2tsp yeast, 1/3c olive oil, and scant 2c water.
Seems like one cannot adjust the crust to light if making whole wheat bread. Or the bread crust still comes out dark even on the light crust setting, not sure, but be prepared for a dark crust.
The big downside is that the kneading blades and pan are non-stick and one has to be extremely careful not to allow any any metal or wood to come into contact with the pan/blades as this will definitely scratch the coating. We use an all silicone spatula to loosen the bread out of the pan.
Another problem, sometimes the kneading blade can lift up during the process slightly and allow dough under the blade, resulting in the blade being encapsulated into the loaf during the baking process. So be careful to make sure that both blades are removed before slicing into the bread or you will be scrambling to find a kneading blade online and then waiting for it to be shipped, the blades currently run about $10 including shipping. We live in a large metropolitan city in California and still had to buy the blade online.
My advice is to initially, buy a couple of extra blades, to have on hand so you are not suddenly out of commission because of some sort of blade incident/accident, especially if all in the household could be working with the machine. Also buy an extra bread pan, for convenience, especially if you want to make loaves back to back. The pan cannot be immediately re-used as the bread first needs to cool down before attempting to remove it from the pan and if the pan is not completely cool the pan will need to be cooled as well and then cleaned. Since the whole wheat process is a minimum of 3 hours having that extra pan allows for one to bake another loaf with out waiting another hour or so. Also if your pan is damaged/scratched you can keep your bread making process going, because you have a backup pan.
Another issue is that the metal pins that the kneading blades go on are hard to clean. And since it is not a good idea to use anything abrasive that could come into contact with the non-stick coating it is hard to get some of the bread residue that get lodge into the nooks/notches at the top of the pins. As well as the bread residue at the base of the pins. The pan also has several round/circular indentations at the bottom of pan that also accumulates residue and is not easy to clean since the pan has a non-stick coating.
In my opinion in order not to compromise the non-stick coating one would have to soak the pan and only use a soft sponge to remove any debris that cannot be loosened by soaking. But if you can clean it without using the sponge than by all means do so.
Also, the instructions state that the machine has to be unplugged after each use, this is a bit inconvenient and I am not sure why this is necessary.
Also this needs to be in an area that is open, so not under cabinets on a counter. Quite a bit of heat and moisture come out of the vents on the top of the machine. So think about where the machine will go.
The inside of the machine itself where the bread pan sits is also not easy to clean but I am thinking of using some sort of small vacuum with a small attachment.
Even with all these issues, the fact that we can get some really good tasting extremely healthy bread that is truly satiating and in my opinion almost therapeutic makes it worth it. However, if some other company is able to produce a comparable model that has an all stainless pan and kneading blades We will without hesitation go with the stainless model. Or if Zojirushi offers a stainless steel pan and kneading blades that would fantastic for the customer and Zojirushi as I am sure many would switch over.
Bottom line this is the best option for now, unless something new is available that I am not of aware of...